The case for staying in the EU - a response

I have, honestly, been trying to find a cogent argument for our staying in the EU, just to provide some balance to my argument that we should leave. This article today, in the independent is perhaps the best that I have come across, so it's worthy of consideration in my opinion. It's not just the usual 'because we say so' bullshit and is considered and well put together. I'm not dismissing it, but my response is as follows: (btw you probably need to read it alongside my comments for this to make sense - in as much as anything I write makes sense to anyone!)

Par one: Our prospects are really quite good compared to Spain or Italy, France or Greece. This is not just about the UK but how the EU is benefitting the rest of Europe in my opinion. Reforming the EU is futile? I think it is. Their stated end game is a federal republic of Europe. With combined European solutions in terms of military, foreign policy, tax and pensions arrangements, labour laws etc. They are simply not going to row back from that. The prospects outside are not 'golden' but they are at least 'free' - we would be able to make our own trading deals with other countries, including places where we have long-standing connections like the Commonwealth, the US, Canada, India, Australia. I think our existing membership is a drain on our reesources and limiting factor in our being able to stand on our own two feet.

Par two: There is no credible evidence that our economy would suffer. We have a £46billion trade deficit with Europe, we buy more of their stuff than they do ours, to the tune of £46billion. They cannot afford not to trade with us. We are in a position of strength here. Europe's global influence is not derived from Italy or France or Portugal or Moldova, but from Germany and the UK. We'd still be the UK outside of the EU. We are effectively weaker on a world stage when we're tied to the smaller EU countries than we would be as the UK. We don't operate as a coherent trading bloc in any way.

Par three: We are the biggest financial services, investment and financing country in the world. We're not some little 'tin pot' outfit as this par seems to suggest. Disregard it. We dictate many industries worldwide, this is simply nonesense. 'Going it alone' means working in our own interests not those of other EU countries. Why should we pay for corruption in marginal EU member countries?

Par four: 47% of the EU budget is spent on the CAP. Keeping subsistence French farmers solvent. Or making UK and German 'agribusiness' massively profitable in a way that we all pay for every day.  47%. Think about that. The rest of that par is just identifying palpable bollocks that the EU is responsible for - probably deliberately to bore us all into ignoring the meaningful EU policies when they come along.

Par five: Given our trade deficit of £46billion the EU would be simply mad not to want to continue to trade with the UK. This 'access' argument is fundamentally flawed. They cannot afford not to trade with us. They cannot afford not to give us access to their markets. If we were members of EFTA we'd have exactly the same trading rights as we do now without any need to be 'ruled by' the EU machinery. Our access to the European market is just not an issue unless they want to go into a recession that would make the last one seem like a small dip in demand.

Par six: EU membership costs us £53 million a day. The 'net figure quoted in the article is £8.3 billion. It's about 12% of what we spend on defense of the realm. About 8% of what we spend on the NHS. About 8% of what we spend on education. It's not 'doesn't cost us much either'. It's significant.  And for what?

Par seven: Foreign investment. Would foreign investors want to put their money into the UK if it was a member of the EU or a country that had exactly the same access to the EU as it currently does but with the added value of being a strong trader with the US, Canada, India, Australia, Africa and the Commonwealth?  Some might not but they'd be muppets. The CBI is a busted flush that does not recognise reality. Former head Digby Jones is in favour of our exiting the EU because he sees the global opportunities we'd have on the outside (but still being 'in' in terms of trade with the EU).

Par eight: Washington Beiijing etc have to take the EU seriously? So they wouldn't take the UK seriously as the major financial and investment player in the world? Perhaps they think that Moldova or Portugal or Cyprus or Italy or France is the key player to include? Europe is powerful because it includes the UK and Germany. Italy is corrupt and bust, France is bust, Holland is teetering on the egde of being bust. Spain is a basket case. And they're the bigger economies of the EU.

Par 9. The Chinese think that the UK is 'the big country'. This point is simply wrong and laughable. Why do they want to come here to be educated in their millions?

Par ten: It's not about standards. There are international standards, we all comply with them. Opening ourselves to international markets? Means enabling us, on our own behalf, to access those markets. On our terms. Trading with others as the UK not in a subservient way via the EU.

Par eleven: Free movement, we have it. We don't need the EU to legislate on it. But we do need to have some control of our borders - that's one of the first principles of government.

Par twelve: It's not about 'foreigners'. It's abut control of our borders. Why use such an emotive term - 'foreigners'? We've always welcomed immigration and we should still do so.

Par thirteen: We're not going to kick anyone out and nor is the EU. The figures are therefore meaningless. We're civilized people. What you suggest is just scaremongering. It will never happen EU or not. This is Europe not an EU state.

Par fourteen, fifteen and sixteen - sorry but I'm losing the will to live here. We welcome incomers if they contribute. They have always come here to better themselves and good for them. It is simply not an EU issue.  

Par seventeen: The future: We have no chance of reforming the EU. It is set on its course of a federal Europe. That will not change. The question is whether we want to control our own destiny or not. Whether we want to vote for people who work for us, have our interests at heart or not. Stats about Britains living abroad have no impact on this fundamental issue.

 Par eighteen. Just read it. That's the first piece of reality in the article.

Par nineteen: 'Probably'? You mean you don't know? The argument falls apart spectacularly at this point. The rest may have been considered, good in places even, but it falls into palpable nonesense at this point. Shame really. The stated aim of the EU is political and (therefore) financial union. You simply cannot have a single state without monetary union. That means the pound will have to go. It doesn't mean the pound might have to be considered at sometime in the future maybe or perhaps. It will have to go if we are to remain part of the EU. Political union 'unnecessary'? It's the fundamental key point of the EU vision. None of your benefits above about powerful trading block and global influence even begin to arise without that political union. You cannot have it both ways. 

Par twenty: Peripheral countries have to solve their own problems? Except they can't. They cannot devalue their currencies so whilst Germany enjoys a 33% exchange rate advantage, an economic boom and strong levels of employment; everyone else is essentially (technical economic term) fucked. What is the EU for if not to solve the problems of its members? Economic, international, employment, laws etc? They have to solve their own problems but also be subservient to Brussels? Disallowed from making changes that would help their economies? Madness. 'Cutting red tape.' The EU? Did you write that with a straight face?

Par twenty-one: What if? Opportunity for Britain? Shouldn't it be opportunity for all members? You seem to be suggesting that the EU will only be good for Germany and the UK? Isn't that fundamentally at variance from what the EU is telling us? What it is 'selling' to all its new members? Wasn't it designed to equalise, to broaden opportunities for all. To eliminate the strength of some over others? That's not what you are saying here.

Oh go on then. Par twenty two Merkel: Germany is laughing all the way to the bank at the benefits the EU is delivering for her. a 33% exchange rate benefit. German companies are buying up Spanish companies at an unprecedented rate because of this. Britain is not 'an important ally'; it's the second biggest net contributor to this scam. If we leave it fails. Spectacularly and quickly. France is bust, Italy and Spain are basket cases, Holland is teetering on the brink. Who else is going to fund this undemocratic sham? Moldova? Ukraine (who we are supposedly bailing out already to the tune of £2billion even though they're not even members?)

Par twenty two. 'None of the varieties (of being out) would be attractive'. You mean like being able to control our own destiny? Giving UK voters some influence over politicians who live locally and understand our local needs, views and concerns? An ability to vote out people who do not do what we want them to do - they work for us remember, not the other way around.

Par twenty three (I wish I'd used numbers from the start ;) ) We could rejoin EFTA (European Free Trade Association) and rid ourselves of the need to aquiess to Brussels. Yes we'd have to obey their trading rules but as one of the biggest customers in Europe do you think we wouldn't have a say in terms of tariffs? Remember we buy more goods from the EU than they do from us. To the tune of £46 billion. The customer is always right. You think they'd impose sanctions on us? If you do you're entirely mad. Norway is prospering massively from being outside the EU. And so is Switzerland. They can't influence what the EU decides but they can also ignore it. And they are doing. In their own interests. We should too.

Par twenty four: Subservient to Brussels? If we left? I don't think so. Blow to our sovereignty? Giving away our ability to control ourselves, to have UK voters' views count would be a blow to our sovereignty? What part of cloud cuckoo land are you living in? Is it nice there? Give me one example recently of where EU rules have been written with our (UK) interests at heart? Just one. Too much to ask? Eurocrats sneer at the UK. Hold us in contempt. And yet we pay for their existence.

Par twenty-five: If you think the EU would impose a 10% tariff on UK-built cars sold into Europe you have lost touch with reality. When we buy £46 billion more EU goods than they do ours? Unlikely. Like the sun not coming up tomorrow is 'unlikely'.

Par twenty-six: If we left the EU we would still be one of the biggest consumers of EU products. They simply cannot afford for us not to be a customer. Our ability to trade with the Eurozone would not diminish at all since it would be massively against their interests. And so there would be absolutely no detrimental impact on our status as a European trading nation. On the contrary, our ability to trade with the EU as well as our enhanced ability to trade, on our own behalf rather than through the laborious, un-agile and red-tape mired EU, with the US, Canada, China, Australia, many parts of Africa, India and the Commonwealth, and the rest of the world as Britain not the EU, would be significantly enhanced. Inward investors would welcome that massively.

Par twenty-seven. We have no chance whatsoever of reforming the EU. France will veto anything we try to reform. You know that. I know that. Dave knows that. The only way is out and your arguments, while being well argued and well-written, are simply not substantial enough to convince anyone with a brain.

As a final point, on this subject, please don't mistake me for a 'Little Englander'. I love Europe. Have friends in many European countries. I love the distinctiveness of its people, culture, food and traditions. But I loathe the EU which is destroying all that. My challenge to the EU is not made solely on the basis of wanting what's best for the UK, but also what's best for the citizens and young people of Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal, Ireland and indeed everyone who is now being controlled disadvantageously by Brussels and Germany. It's time we stopped this unaccountable bullshit.

Thanks for reading.